Why Pray for Israel?

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Tim Heikoop of Return Ministries joins Prayer Stream to explore why Gentile believers should pray for Israel, tracing God's covenant heart for the Jewish people, His name among the nations, and how Christians can build bridges of prayer, compassion, and support.

Transcript

And a big reason why he hasn't moved on from Israel and and Moses alludes to this a number of times is that it it's about his name. And so Moses reminds God like, "Hey, if you give up on Israel, you're going to tarnish your name before the nations." He's concerned about the nations because like you said, he wants to cover the earth. And [music] so, you know, it's not about Israel. It's not about the nations. It's about God's name in the nations. Welcome to Prayer Stream, a podcast from [music] the National House of Prayer in Ottawa. We're here to have conversations with leaders and authors about prayer and how it intersects with the local church, politics and [music] government,

Israel, and anything else that might pop up in the news. Join me, your host, Brad Fidler, [music] along with Chris Byberg, as we wait into the prayer stream. >> [music] >> Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of Prayer Stream. I'm your host Brad Fiddler here with Chris Byberg. Chris, say hi. >> Hello everybody. Great to be back. Just finished an Israel conference in Toronto and hence the puffy tired looking face. Please excuse me. >> It's great to have you guys with us today. We want to introduce to you uh we have a a a special guest with us today. Tim Haikoup joining us from Return Ministries. Tim, say hi. Tell us a little bit about yourself and a little bit about your ministry.

>> Hi Brad. Hey Chris. It is really a delight to be with you both. Uh we walk with you. We've been together on so many ventures, Israel, Ottawa, Toronto, you name it. And uh it's been a joy to walk with you. But yeah, for myself, my name is Tim Hikoup. I represent Return Ministries, the executive director here. Return ministries is an Israel focused ministry or a kingdom focused ministry really with the Jewish people in mind uh to help the Jewish people to come alongside them, embrace them, build bridges into the community and carry them here in the nation of Canada and the United States uh before we actively help carry them home uh to so we connect Christians with the Jewish community uh

and and facilitate and help finance and build relationships uh to within especially the the the families that are are making aliyah. Aliyah means to ascend, to go up. It's the word they used to immigrate to back to Israel. And then we have a a sister organization in Israel in Tiberius, the Galilee that helps absorb these families uh teaching them the language that giving them jobs, clothing, food, and all that in the land of Israel itself. And so this keeps us busy. Um, and our heart is for the church to awaken the body of Christ to his heart uh for the Jewish people, for the times that we're living in as we we build his kingdom. So, >> and oh, I have to mention this. Sorry.

Uh, because behind all this is my beautiful wife, Lynette, and our five amazing children. Uh, that is the joy, really the joy of my life. Uh, and ministry is a side thing. My family is a huge focus for me and uh, I love them to bits. And you know, we got to see them at the U.Ja walk in Ottawa last Sunday. I don't know when this is going out, but um they were all there. Even little tiny Elise celebrated her first birthday with us at the walk for for Israel. So, how cool is that, right? So, you know what? It's a real joy being like the ministry we do is is family. Like to see them walk into and celebrate the things that we celebrate as a ministry organically,

you know, it's not we don't push it on them, but they understand it and uh and they embrace it. So, it it's a lot of fun to walk with my family through even the ministry itself. >> That's pretty cool. I heard a story recently about like the work that Return Ministries does. So helping Jewish people who want to make aliyah to Israel, helping them get to the land and uh and then I love the work you do with with helping them get settled and situated and and functioning in the society there. Um I heard a story recently that two different singles that return ministries helped make Aliyia found each other, met each other in Israel and wound up getting married. >> Yeah, that that was an amazing

experience. We Anita who is the backbone of of connecting Christians and Jews and facil reaching out to the Jewish families who reach out to us >> and by the way many of the Jewish families reach out to us first which is an amazing thing. Wow. >> For uh knowing the history of Christian the Christian name for a lot of the Jewish people especially here in North America it's not they see us as ones who persecuted them in the past. The crusades and the program you name it the Christian name is behind a lot of it. So for them to reach out to us is a huge step of trust and confidence that we don't take lightly and uh and so that yeah two individuals totally not acquainted to one another

had reached out to us for help and then we connected them in in a group in Israel when Anita went there and in that group this guy and girl the Jewish guy and girl just moved to Israel met and end up uh in short time getting married and so [laughter] something because you know wow this is a it brings us a lot of joy to be honest >> yeah I I I really do I I it seems like this is going to be a long return commercial but it's really worth it uh the I I I love Tim's heart where he says we carry them now even now even if even if they're not intending to go to Israel we carry the Jewish people now so that we can carry them later and uh that it's that that's totally what I believe in is

in the heart of the father that uh that we we carry them. We cherish the the apple of his eye and uh so kudos to return. We love working with you. We love partnering with you. Um yeah, so so I'm going to just say this out loud uh on here. So if you want to sew into them, this would be a really great place to sew, a great ministry to sew into uh because they do marvelous work. Anyway, we'll probably say that again a couple times, I hope. >> Very good. So, uh cool thing with Tim with Return Ministries and and us with National House of Prayer, we partner on some things as Tim's already kind of mentioned. One of those uh just this past week, just a couple days ago, uh we

wrapped up uh the second annual Israel Conference. So, Chris, do you want to talk about what that's about and from there we'll kind of jump into our content for today? So again, we we did our second Israel conference last year. We did it we the the original the first one was here in Ottawa uh where we which was very very successful um great connections with the Jewish Federation SA um other rabbis and things like that. And we had pastors and rabbis and Christian leaders and prayer people from all over the country. We actually had people from Newfoundland to British Columbia last year. and which was really really really fantastic. And the feedback was are you going to do it

again? And we and we did and we did it this time in in Canada's largest Jewish population. And so Adat Israel, one of the largest synagogues, hosted part of it. And we were also at another church in uh in Toronto near the Jewish community. And it was a powerful time. We had um Malcolm Heding, the a former director of the International Christian Embassy, Jerusalem, and that was phenomenal. Watch for our videos. We're going to be sending them out on in uh probably a special email. Uh listen to these videos. They are phenomenal. Unbelievable revelation what he carries. And you know, the presence of the Lord was so intense that that that you knew we were in a holy moment. And the Jewish

community recognized we were in a holy moment. And even even Rabbi Cutler, the hosting rabbi, I saw what he sent you this morning, Tim, and his response um to as a host was just so gracious. But there is something happening. Rabbi Cutler shared this thing as the Jewish community. We he put brought an analogy together and put an analogy together that we were Joshua and Caleb and I thought that was really good and I can't unpack that in 10 minutes and [laughter] so rather so watch as we unpack this and maybe you can get into that a little bit today. Phenomenal. We had uh um the Bened Breath with us, Simon Wall, the the new director there. Uh we had um honest reporting allied voices from

Israel and others as well as great Christian leaders. David Lmer from King Street in Ashawa shared he is uh oh what a great man. What a great man. So all in all it was very successful. Uh well we have what 230 registrants um which is pretty good for a midweek midday uh conference uh and um yes I was very very pleased with uh with how it played out and and we had the most phenomenal prayer time to cap off the time worship intercession. It was just glorious. The presence of the Lord was just glorious as it always is. That was good. >> And and uh and to know you know we we experience it in the in the earthly sensing the presence of God but to know what happened in the heavenlies. >> Yes.

>> Because of you know Jew gentile coming together and even revelation you know people were coming to saying like I received a revelation never understood God's heart and covenant with Israel until coming here. And so it's uh makes it worth it to >> Yes. Yes. I had a a prayer leader, prayer ambassador for a a Pentecostal denomination who has a wonderful woman of God who says, "We are coming back. We're bringing the whole tribe." And I never knew this stuff >> and uh it was it was good. It was really really good. It landed. We we we hit our agenda. I really believe I think we hit the target on this one. >> Yep. Yeah, it was good. And I'll also say this, you mentioned last year people

coming from coast to coast. Well, this year we had people from coast to coast to coast. We had BC, >> we had Newfoundland, we had all the all the provinces in between and we had representation from Nunivoot there as well. So, uh it was it was pretty cool. It was pretty cool to have that all together. Um >> yeah, great great time. So, this is a good time to kind of move [clears throat] into what we want to talk about today. Uh, and so the title of this one, we're talking about why pray for Israel. >> And you know, we want to cover this because obviously Israel and and how how we should think about Israel, relate to Israel is a is a pretty big topic, pretty hot topic in the Western church

today. Uh, quite a spectrum of of responses and thoughts. We want to just kind of clarify why we believe yes, we should pray for Israel, what we mean by that, and uh [clears throat] hopefully just bring some clarity to that conversation, and we'll we'll unpack it further in in future episodes as well. But uh like Tim said off the off the top talking about return ministries, it's this is we're kingdom first. We're not we're not Israel first. We're not political first. We're we're kingdom first. We believe this is part of God's heart for the kingdom of God. This is a big part of his heart for the expression and expansion of the kingdom of God in the earth. So,

>> uh we just want to start with why pray for Israel. We want to talk about God's heart for Israel, which he makes very very clear. Uh you know, obviously the first the Old Testament of the Bible is is entirely God's dealing with the Jewish people. So, let's uh let's tap into some of this here. Uh Tim, I'll throw it to you first. Let's talk a little bit about what does what does the word reveal to us about God's heart for the people of Israel. >> Oh, you know, that's a great question because until I really unders read this scripture, especially the Hebrew scripture, what some might call the Old Testament, through the lens of God's heart, just his heart. And I hope that

matters to us, especially as Christians, you know, God's heart. uh you know as a married man um you know you're talking about why I pray for Israel that's praying is communication communication with God and so if I think of my communication with my wife if my conversation is always about myself what I need what I want asking for things you know that conversation is always looking like that with my wife that's a pretty dull doesn't create connectivity but if I want to you know start >> conversing with my wife on a level of wanting to understand her heart and pouring into it. Uh, you know, that creates a deep relationship. And so, as we read through the Hebrew scripture,

all of scripture, old and new testament, it gains this incredible heart of God. You know, one right from all the way through you, you can just open a page and point and you probably come to but you know, one of the scriptures you'll probably bring up Deuteronomy 7, you know, I didn't choose you because you were greater. I chose you because I loved you. Deuteronomy, I believe 7:7 6 and 7. Um and uh and all walking all the way through even knowing that the Israel would be unfaithful and rebel and play the you know adulter and all of that he still would remain faithful uh because of his covenant love. And you just read all the way through. Um can I read Jeremiah 31:3? >> Go for it. Yep.

>> Yeah. 31:3 is probably one of my favorite scriptures because again it reveals the heart of God. He says uh the Lord appeared to him from far away. The Lord says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love." This this is him speaking after Israel had had done all the sin and come against God. He says, "I've loved you with an everlasting love. Therefore, I have continued my faithfulness to you." In other words, even though I know your past, I will still continue in an everlasting love and faithfulness moving forward. Uh there's nothing that can that you can do to separate and stop me as as the God of heaven to be in relationship with you and loving you with with all my heart.

>> That's good. >> Yeah. the, you know, when in the New Testament, it's one of the things I love and and there's this this particular scripture that we so often uh think it's about us and and we think about it as personally and it's the scripture about gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. And so many times we loop that in to say, I have this kind of spiritual gift and I have [clears throat] this kind of spir spiritual gift. I'm evangelical or I'm prophetic or I'm an intercessor or I do whatever. And we we we lump that into that. But that scripture is actually talking about Israel. And that God's gift and call on them is irrevocable. It doesn't change. It doesn't move. He

doesn't change his mind. God is not a man that he should lie or change his mind. And so often we weigh into situations. We say, "Well, God changed his mind." Well, if he changed his mind there and and Romans 11 says this, if he changes his mind there, how does he not change his mind with us? >> That's right. >> Who is and and this is where we get caught up. And and you want to know something and this is the big argument amongst Muslim Islam. God changed his mind. That's what they say. And that's why we are it. and uh because they came after >> the people of the book, after the Jews and the Gentiles, Christians. And so that's the argument. So if your your argument is

um you know, God changed his mind, uh you're probably siding with the the Islamists. I'm just saying. Ju just spitballing. Well, yeah, to that to that point, like one of the greatest comforts for me as a Christian, when I'm especially when I uh you know, when I struggle with struggle with the besetting sin, to struggle with uh or just feel like I'm not measuring up, there's this com this confidence from God knew every one of my days before a single one of them happened. And he still called and chose me and invited me in. He knew I would stumble before he invited me. And so he's not shaken. He's not surprised by it. So I can have confidence. Well, it's the same with the

people of Israel in the Old Testament. We see how, you know, right from the beginning in the Torah, you've got in Deuteronomy and and in Leviticus, Moses is telling them, you know, he lays out, if you follow the Lord, here's the blessings that'll come. If you disobey, here's the problems that'll happen. And he doesn't say if. He says when you >> when you walk away from him, when you dis disobey him, when you do all these things, when you do all the things he told you not to do, uh here's how it's going to play out. And God was never like I guarantee God was not surprised at how things played out through Israel's history. And so why would he if he would change his mind like you're to

your point Chris if he would change his mind about Israel given how many times he used terms like Tim like you're saying everlasting love steadfast love keeping mercy for thousands of generations the number of times he makes statements like that if he's willing to change his mind about them how much more willing would he be to change his mind about me and so it really undermines all of what we think about God's faithfulness to us if he's not faithful to them. >> Yeah. >> And I would say begin reading scripture with the language that's written. So when he says everlasting, read everlasting. When he says I will remain faithful to it's he will remain faithful. And when he says Israel, the

2500 times Israel is mentioned in scripture 2500 times. When he says Israel, guess what? He means Israel. And uh when we when I begin to read scripture through literal lens when when possible and uh you know it's been said and I I think it's my father-in-law uh Dean B who who started return ministries he says you know when you take a scripture like I know the plans I have for you plans to proc you know Jeremiah 29:11 you take that sure take it to yourself and that is God's heart for you for me as an individual but remember why he wrote it you know that scripture was written for the restoration of Israel. And so when you use it, don't forget to put it back on the shelf because God may

not be done with that scripture yet for its original purpose. uh and when we begin to to grasp the heart of God through his word with the original purpose of why he wrote it >> uh and to the people who who he wrote it to that it really breaks through into understand how we pray even right because then we begin to pray for Chris like you mentioned it's not as much individual and and Brad like you're saying kingdom it begins to expand our prayers into the realm that God the vision that God sees uh and why he wrote these scriptures for and to whom and and for the the purpose. >> Yeah. We look at, you know, Psalm 72 and we use this an awful lot as Canadians because part of that scripture is is

written on our in our peace tower. He will have dominion from sea to sea, from the rivers to the end of the earth. And so we think sea to sea is Atlantic to Pacific, right? And to the river, I guess it's either the Ottawa River or maybe the St. Lawrence River or maybe it's the Renault or maybe some other river or the the North Saskatchewan River and it's no it's it's from the river to the he's actually talking about river Israel there that's what he's talking about dominion and we happen to be the ends of the earth that's where we are but the focus is still on Israel and so yes we can we can claim that for ours which I think I think that was wonderful that Samuel Tilly did that and brought

that for us and called us dominion. I'm not not uh you know dissing that at all. It's out of old language, right? And and uh but but I am but what I'm saying read it for what it actually is. And that is what we need to do. We need to say yes because we are grafted in. We are a part of this. We're brought into this the covenant. We're a part of this too. So we can use this. But remember that they're the big olive tree and we're just the little wild branch that's let's that's grafted in. >> Grafted in. >> I like to say this. Yeah, I like to say this. I was I'm talking with a a rabbi and his wife and we were talking about >> um certain things and and one of the

things and and I actually spoke to them about Romans 11 and they never heard this before. And this a rabbi that was new to walking with Christians. This rabbi had been to many many many over 40 events um that I know of with one particular organization and so he is very Christian adjacent let's call it that's a good word he he knew he knows what how to do this but nobody ever talked to him about Romans 11 and and I and I said to him here you are you are the big thing you're the big and we're the little thing you know I said it reminds me of the first shall be last and the last shall shall be first. And meanwhile, Christian Christianity is the largest religion in the world and

Judaism is probably one of the smallest, you know, with less than 17 million followers. And not of them, not even many of them are believing, >> right? Not even many of believing are people of faith in that [clears throat] community. So, we even knock that down to even less. Let's just cut it in half. Maybe it's that small, right? So 16 six million followers, 8 million followers of faith and yet the first will be last and the last will be first. I I mean that's the way I've been thinking about it in the last little while. And that's and that's the heart of God because when we think we're the biggest and we're the all going on, we need to think of ourselves as the last. We need to think

of ourselves as as as in that place of h humility. Humble yourself in the eyes of the Lord and he will lift you up in due time. >> Right. And I would just I would just say this to add to what you were kind of saying earlier. Like we believe National House of Prayer Return Ministries as well. I'll speak for you could tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure you agree with this. Uh we're all about the kingdom of God filling the earth. >> We believe the knowledge of the glory of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters cover the seas. We believe that the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our God. We believe all these things. The thing is Israel is

still the epicenter of that playing out. And and so it's not about I I just I bring this up to say like so you use the word focus earlier. I would use the word epicenter. It's it's not it's not about Israel. It's about the kingdom of God filling the earth. But he has not moved on from Israel as kind of the epicenter of that playing out. And that's kind of that's kind of how we approach this. And a big reason why he hasn't moved on from Israel and and Moses alludes to this a number of times is that it it's about his name. And so Moses reminds God like, "Hey, if you give up on Israel, >> you're going to tarnish your name before the nations." He's concerned about the

nations because like you said, he wants to cover the earth. And so, you know, it's not about Israel. It's not about the nations. It's about God's name in the nations in the nation of Israel. And so God hallowing God continuing his faithfulness to a nation that doesn't deserve it. And we all nations really don't deserve it. But if we look at scripture, Israel hasn't deserved it certainly. >> But because of that faithfulness uh in spite of it, it builds the character and mercy and love and steadfastness of our God of heavenly father. It just magnifies it that much more, the more he God endures with his people despite everything, the greater his name becomes. Yes.

>> Uh and the more he would give up on them, the the less you know, it it would be like, well, God, you know, out you go if if you disobey and we think, you know, in our human minds, that's practical. You why not? Um but in God's mind and that's you know reading through the scripture from that perspective of God's everlasting faithfulness despite all of it. Uh then it's like okay that's this is on God's heart. >> Yes. And so I can I can pray into this then if that's God's heart that can that activates me into the place of intercession and prayer like Moses and and the the desire of of God to me to activate in that and and also you know back to Romans 11 all Israel will be

saved. I mean that that is a bold statement and I know that we often use this again back to us in Canada. All Canada will be saved. It doesn't say that in the scripture. No, but it says all Israel be will be saved. So the heart of the father for Israel that they'd be all saved is really important. So that we need to be praying in that in that venue in that to realize like how much is all? All is all. So if God is saying all, that is that is a grandiose undertaking. Right? That is massive. That is exceedingly abundantly more than I could ask or imagine. >> Right? >> And if if I could add to that, the verses before that uh in 25, lest you 11 Romans 11:25, lest you be wise in your

own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers, a partial hardening has come upon Israel. He's speaking of Isaiah, you know, 6:9 and and and on uh about the blindness and and that that would come over deafness that would come over Israel. And he says, "A partial hardness has come onto is upon Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. >> In this way, all Israel will be saved." And so until the when does Israel reach their their place of coming back into their full like their salvation their is when there's a fullness of the Gentiles. And so I I often say when people you know praying for Israel, praying for their salvation. I'm like you know what

you have to be praying for first is is the Gentiles fullness because it's until the Gentiles fullness comes in. >> So by praying for the Gentiles fullness, you are praying for Israel. uh because Israel will not come to their fullness uh until the Gentiles do. And I believe that fullness, if you read through this nar Paul's narrative, the fullness of is Israel or the nations rather, the Gentiles coming into their place, their role. What is their role? Uh Romans 11:11, just a few verses before. >> Yeah. >> So I asked, did they stumble in order that they might fall? speaking of the Jewish people. By no means, Paul says, of his own people, his own Jewish people. Rather, through their trespass,

salvation has come to the Gentiles. But God used the disobedience and and rejection of the of the Jews to bring the Gentiles, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Why? So as to make Israel jealous. I believe that's the fullness of the Gentiles. When we activate on making the the the nation of of Israel, the Jewish nation jealous back to their place, back into their role, back into their calling, back into the relationship with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. >> One of my favorite things to do and since October 7th and even before that, because inh uh we felt the Lord speaking us to pick up Israel u carry Israel with the same intensity we carry Canada >> at the beginning of 2023, right?

That's right. It's we we were started to move towards that, but the Lord was speaking actually at in the middle of 2022 and we were discerning and not wanting it to be a a knee-jerk reaction, right? Because did I hear you, Lord? Am I? And so, it took us a while to actually say, Lord, is this you? So, you really want us to do this? You want us to go this way? So, it took us a while to process and listen and to discern if we're moving this way. And then things became very very evident that we were supposed to move with this way and we did the the how our first how to pray for Israel. Go on our website and NHOP website and we have a prayer school on our website. That's how to pray for

Israel. Go take a look at Tim is there. Marty Schub is there. Robin Gilman's there. I'm there. Brad's there. So, um, I was told when we did this, we nobody's ever done this before and so here we are running ahead and doing these things and then October October 7th happened and we were already in the stream already had started to learn the language of prayer for Israel because we had to learn this language. I never prayed this before. I know Tim would doing it for a long time, right? But but for me, I had to learn this. I had to dig into the word to see what the word actually said about Israel and pray from that place. Pray the word from that position, not my ex my not

exclusively from my opinions. And I have lots of opinions. And so, but is and my opinions can be deceptive aside sometimes because they're connected to my emotions. And so, we don't want to necessarily pray from our emotions. Although the word says bless the Lord, oh my soul, my mind, my will and emotions, >> right? We still want to be praying from from what the word says. And that is important. So dig into the word, find out what God actually says and pray it. That's how we do this. Pray the word and uh and watch what's happen because he is watching over his word waiting to perform it. Mhm. [clears throat] So, a couple other things I'll throw in here from from the word. Just uh some of

the language and some of the analogies God uses to describe his relationship to Israel. Uh I think of Exodus 4:22 when he's uh sending Moses to deliver Israel from Egypt. And he he calls Israel his firstborn son. That's a that is a you know, the Lord calls Israel my f my firstborn son. That's a that's a very >> uh >> Yeah. you have strong feelings about your firstborn son, right? And uh but also describing himself as is as Israel's husband. You look at Isaiah 54 uh first few verses of Isaiah 62, a passage that people a lot of people love to quote about being set on the wall and give him no rest until he until he answers. But uh just before that, it's because because he says, "My delight is

in her in Israel and I'm married to her." And so those are strong strong pictures he uses. I'm married to her. I'm like a bridegroom to her. And Israel in in another picture another way is like my firstborn son. So it uses and that that would also explain why through Israel's wanderings uh throughout the Old Testament he refers to it as adultery. It's not just it's not just a sin. It's a it's a personal wound to him that that she would walk away. And so, uh, it's his heart is fully invested there. And, you know, if he were a man, he might he might give up after enough woundings and give up and move on. But, actually, that's the lesson through Hosea, right? >> Yeah.

>> Is as much as as much as you're unfaithful to me, I will keep coming back to you. And uh so that's those are pretty powerful pretty powerful pictures and pretty powerful language he uses to describe his heart for the people of Israel. >> So it's really important there that that to notice that we are not talking about a political party in Israel. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. That we're not in the same way we pray for Canada and we we try to be as as non as nonpartisan as we can. Like I have a favorite team. I do have a favorite team and I like my team, but we pray for everybody. Pray for everybody. 1 Timothy says, uh, 1 Timothy, too. Pray for everybody. And so, you'll notice

that we're not talking about exclusively Benjamin Netanyahu. Um, although we do pray for him because the scripture tells us to, but we're not praying for a political movement. We're praying for the people of Israel, the land of Israel. But to say not for it not to be political there there there's a a political connection, right? I like to I like the language that you used just uh the other day we were talking about that the land of Israel is the container. It's the container for the Jews to come home. And uh and and this is this is really really important. And and this is there's a miracle here because because they were exiled once and actually scripture told them I'm going to do it

again and bring them back. And and actually the other night with Hel fooled uh speaking we did an event with the Jewish National Fund here in Ottawa and he was talking about this miracle. the miracle that in the scripture, right, they got removed the first time and scattered and brought them back and then and then the the the scripture says, "I'm going to remove you and I'm going to bring you back and the Lord did it and he's doing it." So for us to say, "Well, this is not great." This is massive. Like for example, here we have a a people that was that have been exiled for the most part, not all of them because there was always a a continuous Jewish presence in Israel,

even though it might have been really really small, >> right? But here you have these peoples coming back. Let me ask you this. How many Babylonians do you know? [laughter] >> Huh? How many How many Mesopotamians do you know? Right? How many Hittites do you know? But here you have this thing. The people of Israel, the people that are of the God of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Jacob. And so, we see this miracle that they are back. And it's not should not be a surprise because the word said he was going to do it. >> That's right. >> And he's doing it. And that's >> back after 1800 years, right? 1,800 years out out of the land for the most part, like you said, there's always a

remnant, always a small portion. But >> after 18, 1800 years to still have their culture, to still have the the language, the religion, all these things, all these markers that other societies, they disappear after a few after a couple decades maybe when they're when they're scattered, but it's held for 1,800 years in their back. It's it's a miracle. It's remarkable. Tim, go ahead. They meet they meet all the criteria of indigenity, >> right? >> They meet all the criteria which is really really interesting. They are the indigenous people of the land. Well, I and I talked to some, you know, people who have lived here in Canada for five generations and ask, you know, what's

your background and use it? uh I think English uh and you know five generations they they've forgotten where they're right >> that 2,000 years for the Jewish nation and they haven't forgotten and that that's not counting the fact that >> many nations that they've gone into Spain England Russia these nations attempted their best to assimilate them there was the pressures to assimilate them persecution death, everything they could do to assimilate the Jewish people into their religion and culture. And despite all of that pressure, and that's a spiritual pressure, that wasn't just a cultural pressure because Satan knew very well that God still has a plan for

the Jewish people. And that he was going to hold them in the nations uh until he was going to bring them back. Why? just because they could just claim their land that they had they were indigenous to. No, yes, that they were indigenous, but because he still has a kingdom purpose for them and to prove that God everlasting covenant holds. He, you know, he he is strong enough to God is strong enough and powerful enough to say, I'm holding to the this covenant uh and I'm not giving up on this people. They haven't been replaced and they are they have they're still the apple of my eye. >> When you when you go to Israel and everybody should go to Israel and we're

working on getting you there, having some ideas and I'm working on some other things as well. Um but you will find that they are not all Europeans there. And that's the the the narrative that will say they're all Europeans. They're all Ashkanazi and they're not all Ashkanazi. There are some to say that they're not there there aren't any fair-skinned people there, but they have Ethiopian Jews and most of the Jews that are in the land are have come from the Middle East. They're sphartic and and what's the other term as well and uh I was just watching a podcast last night. I couldn't see very well. So, I was watching a podcast and they were talking about the the Jews in South India that

they believe are the last tri tribe of Manise. And then I was watching something last night and they were talking about Jews that are in Polynia, you know, in Indonesia and they have all these Jews from everywhere and they carried the traditions from 2,000 years ago because they followed the Silk Road. They followed those places and many times they did it for business, but a lot of times they were pushed out and so here they are and now they're coming back into the land. So, so many of us in North America knows Jews as as Ashkenazi Jews. You know, they look like Jerry Seinfeld. And uh and uh but they're not all this way. And when you get to Israel, it is a very very diverse. And I

think that's that's so interesting that you have all this this this um mosaic of all these different looking Jews and yet they're Jews. And uh that's phenomenal. >> Mhm. I just want to I'll slide this in and then we'll we'll move along. Chris, you mentioned a um passage Isaiah 11, which I I find so interesting. So Isaiah 11, we we recognize it's it's about Jesus that it's about the branch of the Lord. He'll be filled with the spirit of God, the spirit of wisdom, counsel, fear of the Lord, like all all these sevenfold spirit of God. And then it goes on and it it describes in verses 6-9, it describes what we would we would call the fullness of the kingdom of God

on the earth. The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard, with the young goat. All this this peace where there's in in relationships where there's been animosity >> and it and then verse 10 it says, "In that day, the root of Jesse, of him shall the nations inquire." So the nations will come to him. It's echoes of Isaiah 2 and Isaiah 4 and and so on. But uh and then verse 11, in that day the Lord will extend his hand yet a second time to recover the remnant that remains of his people. And it lists all these different regions. And it's we know that God brought the exiles back >> in uh in the 500s BC, the days of Daniel and and so on. Um, but here Isaiah is

saying even a couple hundred years before that, he's saying the Lord's going to do it a second time as well. And it makes sense to me. I I scan the history pages and it makes sense to me that we're seeing the second time in these days. It just that just seems to make sense to me. So that's uh that's pretty uh that's pretty wild that Isaiah said he's going to do this twice. You're going to be exiled. He's going to draw you back. But in that day, he's going to do this for the second time is bring the remnant back from the nations. >> Yes. >> Anything you want to add to that, guys? >> Well, amazing thing. What? Look what he says in verse 12 there. He will raise a

signal to Israel. No, to the nations. >> So, this is this is why it's important for us as nations to pay attention to what God is doing. We can't spectate this return, this aliyah of the Jews back to Israel. Why? Because God is raising a signal and a sign. Isaiah 49:22 talks about this as well to the nations. He's saying, you know, he's not speaking, he's almost speaking often he's speaking to Israel many times and of we need to be alert when he's talking about uh our role. You know, if we Israel has a role, we have a role as nations. And so whenever God is appealing to the nations, we better pay extra attention. And here he is. He will raise a signal. He's, "Hello nations,

look what's happening. I I'm raising a signal to the nations that I will assemble the banished of Israel." It's like, "And bring them home." It's wow. Isaiah 49:22 talks about the nations carrying the Jewish people home in their arms and on their shoulders. It's like they are not to go home alone. Naomi didn't go home alone from Moab back when she made her aliyah. Returned back from Moab to to >> uh to Bethlehem. Ruth said, "No, no." She made a almost this marital covenant language with her to say, "I will carry you home." She was fulfilling almost this prophecy of being a shadow of what is taking place today, which is >> and and not only that, but in the Jewish

community in the more Orthodox, they are watching for this and they're watching for the Gentiles to bring them home because it will usher in the return of Messiah. They see this at going hand in hand. So there's those that are that are faithful, those are that are are are trying to live out the shama and they are watching and they're watching this. They're saying that when this happens, watch for this because the Messiah is coming. Yeah, that's pretty that's pretty wild. I'll just say one thing on the side. I'm just going to throw this out there. We'll explore this in another episode in the future, but Jeremiah 31, that chapter, which is we mostly recognize it for the the new covenant,

verse 31-35. Uh Jeremiah 31 is is it's an important chapter. Just read through it sometime. Like I said, we'll unpack it another time. Uh it's to the house of Israel. It's to the house of Jacob. And it's the covenant. It's we think it's a covenant made to us. It's made to them. And it's the one that Paul says we're grafted into. And so there's just and even in there at the end verses 35 to 37 just real quick >> God says if the fixed order of the sun and moon and stars if that ceases that's when Israel will cease to be a nation before me forever. >> Wow. >> It's it's so powerful and clear. If the sun and moon and stars quit then I'll quit on them. >> Yeah. And so I don't know about you, but

last I saw the sun came up this morning. And so tells me he still that Israel still exists as a nation before him. >> So >> So let's uh so from there, we're we're we've we've been chatting a while already. Uh I want to just touch on one more thing. So we were we talked earlier. We were at this conference, the Israel conference earlier this week, and David Lmer, uh pastor from uh the east end of the GTA, he uh I love the statement he makes. He says for a lot of people this is a an esqueatological argument. This is a debate about how we view the end times. And his statement is we stand with Jews not because of esquetology but because of ethics. And uh and so just to touch on this briefly

before we end a major a major part of what we what we both stand for NHOP Return ministries and others is allyship with Jewish people in Canada. And part of the reason for that is uh as you mentioned earlier Chris Simon Wall from Benth was yeah >> at this conference and he shared so Benth they've they've been doing annual reports on anti-semitism in Canada since 1982 these annual audits and he shared these numbers and I'm just going to shoot through them quickly. It really paints a picture of where we're at in Canada right now. So in 2022 there were 2,769 total incidents of anti-semitism reported in Canada. Okay. So just shy of 2,800. And he he also made a point to

explain they have pretty strict criteria for what counts as an incident. Um so he said this is actually kind of under reporting uh what what actually comes in. It's it's these are these have to pass a certain threshold of seriousness to be tallied. So, but just under 2,800 in 2022. In 2023, which is when October 7th happened. So, October October 7th is the last quarter of the year. Okay. In 2023, the number of total incidents increased by 109%. It went up to almost 5,800 incidents. And again, so it it more than doubled. And most of that came in the last 3 months of the year after October 7th. Uh violence reports of violence increased 208% from the year before and harassment

almost 125%. Like it was a major jump which is wild because Israel was attacked. Uh it was these raids carried out on carried on out on the most peaceful civilians, the ones trying to build peace with Palestinians. they were the ones massacred and taken hostage and and all the awful things that happened. Um, and people in the West were jumping on the Jewish people here over that. It's it's it's kind of stunning really. Um, and then just since then the incidents have increased uh up to 6,200 in 2024 and last year 6,800 total incidents. >> 6,800. And then the last thing I'll add to this, this is from stats can uh religious hate crimes. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, we hear the government talk

most about Islamophobia in Canada. They're always talking about that. And >> hey, we're we're not saying that's a bad thing. We're like in that we're saying Islamophobia is bad. Acts of hatred against Muslims are bad. We don't we don't call for that in any way, shape, or form. That's not the way of Jesus. Uh but just for comparison, 16% of religious hate crimes in Canada were carried out against the Muslim population and Muslims make up about 5% of Canada's population. Okay? So again, that number is way too high. Uh it shouldn't be there. But by comparison, Jews make up just over 1% >> of Canada's population and 70% of all religious hate crimes were directed at

Jews. It is a disproportionately like it is a heavily skewed difference. The Jews are targeted more than any other group in Canada for hate crimes. And so if we ethically speaking, if we as the people of Jesus believe in standing up for the oppressed and the hated and the downtrodden and those sort of things, and that's not to call them victims, you know, they're the Jewish pe the Jewish community is strong and resilient, you know, to last as long as they have, as we were talking about earlier, away from their homeland and to to continue as they have. They're incredibly resilient. Uh but there's no other people group hated like they are in Canada. And so as the church, we have an ethical

obligation to stand with them and support them and and stand for them. >> Exactly. It's it's ethical. And we can get caught up in the es es Oh my goodness, I'm so tired. Anyway, esquetology in the esquetology and uh that uh we missed the point, you know, we Jesus said this, you know, um where were you when I was thirsty, right? Where were you when I needed to be visited in prison? Where were you? This is the same kind of thing. And this is where we are to come along, especially knowing that they are the apple of his eye so much more cuz God said this is important to me. So we need to pay pay attention to the things that are important to God. Right? When we pay pay attention to the

things that are important to God, I want to do the things that are that are that are important to him. and he and like this the he has shown you oh man what's good >> right >> what does the Lord require of you to do justice to love mercy to walk humbly and this applies to the Jewish community this is our posture not to come in like we know everything and we are and to even think yes we are grafted in and I'm so grateful for that and I'm so grateful to know that God loves loves me and I and he loves me a lot. I think he loves me the most to tell you the truth. I think that's he does because because how how well and how good he is to me. It makes me think that he loves me the

most. But the Jewish community is the apple of his eye and we need to be carrying them with the same intensity in the heart of God for them as in the heart of God for them. And Brad, yeah, those stats should be staggering to us, especially as a church. Uh, you know, we don't we go to church and we don't have to walk through every, >> right, >> every synagogue has security that you have to go through because of the shootings and and the threats that constantly This is Canada, Toronto, every synagogue. And we we just, you know, we barely bat an eye to that. Uh I'm just thinking I what what came the verse came to mind when you read that is Isaiah 40 verse you know one comfort com he's speaking

to the nations comfort comfort my people he's calling the nations to comfort comfort his people and and here in Canada if you're listening wherever you're listening from you can find ways f answer that call of of the of the shepherd of Israel to comfort his people uh and there are so many ways to do this to express whether through written or through uh just write and say we're praying for you. Find find a synagogue. Everyone they all have websites and email addresses. Call them. Uh write notes to them. Uh stand in solidarity with them. You know, there's there's so many ways we can show this. But yeah, to love like Chris was saying, love what God loves. Love who

God loves. And if if they are still his first born, they're still the the the spouse he is he is moving and wooing into the wilderness as Hosea talks about that uh why shouldn't we express the at least a small amount of love compared to the amount of love that God still has for for his his people. >> Yes. >> And I and I would say, you know, ask the Lord if you don't have Jewish friends. I have a lot of Jewish friends and uh and and you know I grew up many of you know me I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood in fact where we held our uh um our conference this year. It was 1.3 kilometers from the apartment that I grew up from. >> So we're right in where I grew up. I

knew this place very well. I had many many Jewish friends growing up but moved across Canada. And the Lord has blessed me with a lot of Jewish friends now. a lot of rabbis, a lot of rabbi friends. And I ask the Lord to give me friends, not and you can't just ask him and sit there, right? Say say, "Lord, send me." And and you think they're going to he's going to Amazon them to you. He's not going to Amazon them to you. He He's So you need to go out and actively look and open doors and seek and find and knock. >> Yeah. >> And uh to to find them and care for them. So we build relationships. I was at an event last night because one of my friends put on an event. To tell you the

truth, I'm really tired. I I we did the Israel conference and then we went to Israel and then we did JPB as well, Jerusalem prayer breakfast. So, we've had an extremely wonderfully busy first half of the year. And one of my friends was doing something on anti-semitism with indigenous people that coming from around the globe. And uh and did I feel like going? No. I was very tired but I went anyway for the sake of my friend >> and we need to be sacrificing um for our friends you know because they're our friends and I love my friends and I love that God has given me these friends and I want to I want to carry them with intentionality and love them with purpose.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's a I'll put that out there. Just if you're listening, if you're you're still, you know, you're skeptical about this whole thing, which you know, that's all right. Just let's stay in the conversation. But, uh, like Chris said, ask the Lord for Jewish friends and find and make Jewish friends and and just learn to see what they're living with. Um, again, we're talking about here in Canada where we live and uh, you know, hear his heart there. I just want to emphasize something Tim mentioned earlier. So, we heard this from someone in the Jewish Federation of Ottawa back in March that for synagogues, for their synagogue, a quarter of their budget is spent on

security. If you're a pastor or if you're just a part of a church, part of a local church, think of your church's budget. >> Yeah. >> And imagine 25% of that each year being spent on security measures. >> Yeah. >> We have no grid for what they're what they're experiencing. And that's not just since October 7th. They've been they've had to uh live this way for decades. >> Decades decades like this. >> Yeah. >> And that was the eye openener for me. It was like decades. It was like I thought it was October 7. No, it's always been there. We haven't been paying attention. >> Right. And so >> even on even on the walk for Israel, you know, 60,000 Jews, we were wearing these

shirts that said on the back Christians stand with Israel. and how many came up to us and you know crying or just saying like this a sincere thank you we thought we were alone thank you for standing with it means so much to them yes they're resilient people they've learned to stand alone but why would we let them you know like Ruth why would Ruth let Naomi go home alone uh and because of that she became part of the redemptive kingdom plan grand great-grandmother of David and part of that whole story narrative just because She chose to do what was uncomfortable uh and not easy. Uh and I think we were living in that same place to say are we going to choose to walk actively with

the Jewish people not from our what we gain from it but from what we can give and what how we can serve and humbly and bless. >> And and here's here's a little tip. So when they are gathering at a flag raising, at an event, at a memorial, or when a synagogue is is shot at, which happens way too many times, >> show up. >> Go there. Be a part of that group. Get in there and and uh and invite yourself and make friends. And that's and that's what I have done. That's all we've done. The first one we went to, the very first thing after October 7th, uh the first event was November 3rd on Parliament Hill and we walked from City Hall in Ottawa to was it wasn't that it was

about 2,000 people there and there were a handful of Christians and we were that and we you know what while we were walking we were thinking like okay um if something were to go sideways is it more beneficial for us to be in the center of the crowd or is it more beneficial for us to be on the edge of the crowd so we can run away? Those are things that were in our head and we went anyway and actually to tell you the truth there there was a bomb threat that was thwarted and uh we didn't know about it till about 3 four 5 months afterwards um that they they planned on bombing that event. But we went anyway. And while we were there, I I there was a Rabbi uh Menson, Kabad Rabbi. I know him

now, but I didn't know him then. And he came up to me and he and he wanted to he's a Kabad guy. So they're like evangelicals, right? They they like to preach Judaism and and what they do is they do and they they get you to praise Sha. And but I said to him, I said, you know, I would love to do this because actually I do pray the shama. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and I love that prayer. And uh but I said, I don't know if you would you would appreciate me doing this. I don't know if it's cultural appropriation. That's what I said to him. Um because I'm a Christian. And he just he was gobsmacked >> that we were there. And he hugged me and

he embraced me. And that was the very first time. And so we've since then built many relationships with many rabbis here in this city. And uh anyway, I encourage you to do that. >> So what we're as we're talking about this, just to throw this out there as well, there's many Christians I've heard who've got big problems with how how the how the war in Gaza has been carried out over the last few years. We're not saying you have to agree with what a government over in the Middle East is doing. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about find and carry and love and support Jewish people where you live. And because hey, there's there's a lot of Jews who have a lot of

things to say about how the Israeli government's carried out that war. There's there's not a >> I have two I have Jewish friends that say this. You have two Jews, you have seven opinions. >> So, it we're not that's not what we're talking about and calling for. You can still keep those opinions and keep and keep saying those things. That's fine. It's but the Jewish people. >> Uh that's that's our heart. That's what we believe the Lord's heart is for. Not a political entity, but the people. And uh >> we harp on it because so many in the church seem to have moved on from them and written them off. And we're just trying to bang the drum and say, "No, no, no. They're still very much on his

heart." >> And and real quick, and in addition to all the Arabs in the land there as well. is hardest for all of them. We're just banging the drum on the group that we're seeing is being overlooked. >> Yes. And too often we are hearing, well, this is a political issue, so therefore I will not engage. And it is way big. I hope we explain to you today that this is far greater than just politics. Yep. So with this being the prayer stream podcast, we like to finish with so how do we pray? Let's what's a takeaway from today's conversation that we can take into the place of prayer and and pray for the people of Israel. So, which one of you wants to take that first?

>> Well, you know what? We've gone long. Why? Go ahead, Tim. >> Yeah. Well, I I'd start with, you know, why you ask a question. Why pray? And, uh, because God tells us to, you know, Isaiah 627 6 and 7. on your walls, oh Jerusalem, which uh Chris and I when we were just in Jerusalem actually stood literally on uh a wall in Jerusalem from ancient times, not the walls that were built 500 years ago, but ancient ancient walls. And he says, "On your walls, oh Jerusalem, I have set watchmen." And through scripture, often the watchmen are the the nations. And so he's he's talking to us nations. Uh I've set watchmen all the day and all the night. This is ongoing, never stopping. They

shall never be silent. The first verse says for Zion's sake, God says I won't keep silent. He's not keeping silent. He's telling us not to stay silent. You who put the Lord for why? Because he started, you know, the the chapter here with for Zion's sake. Now he's telling us not to keep silent. So why are we not keep silent? For Zion's sake. You who put the Lord in remembrance. So just like Moses was putting God in remembrance of his covenant, not to overthrow Israel. uh putting God in remembrance saying don't do this because of your covenant uh take no rest and give him no rest until when until he establishes Jerusalem as a praise in all the earth. Is Jerusalem a praise in all

the earth right now? No. Uh will it be? Yes. That's when we can stop interceding on behalf of Israel when it that happens. and that and uh and so until then, like Moses, I my my encouragement would be for for you to to like Moses, remind God into remembrance of his covenant promises like Daniel did uh and confessing the sin of Israel and saying for this is for the sake of your people and and Jerusalem uh where your name is placed. And so open up scripture and read, not read it, intercede on behalf, pray the scripture and pray God's covenant heart for Israel. That would be my encouragement. >> Yeah. >> Yes. I would encourage from Isaiah 56. Um, and this is where Jesus talks about,

"My house will be a house of prayer for all nations." Or like my friend Yehuda Glick says, "My house will be a home of prayer for all nations." And I want to be in that home. I want to be in that house. I want to be the watchman on the wall. And in Isaiah 56, there's an indictment there. And it said, "Israel's watchmen are asleep. I do not want to be a sleeping watchman." I believe we are an endhop nation. I we we have a call to be a watchman for Israel and Canada and all the times. We are are figuratively on the wall. But I love it when I literally pray on the wall as well as I got to do that a little while ago. But we don't want to be those sleeping sleeping watchmen. We want to be awake.

We want to be watching. We want to be praying. And we will be watching for the return of Messiah. Uh which is so so important. And yeah, I don't want to be I don't want to be a sleeping dog. That's what they call it. Sleeping dog. And I'll say just really quick that if you are someone who does take this seriously but are in a church that maybe the pastor doesn't exercise this praying watchman on the wall for Israel, reach out to us. Reach out to NHOP or Return Ministries and we will help activate prayer in your church. Uh and so you can be, you know, activate your church and be part of the grassroots of bringing prayer for God's heart within your within your community.

>> Yes, we've got great tools. We would love to help you. Both of us have great tools. >> Yep. And I'll just add this real quick. My my most common prayer for Israel is for their preservation and for their salvation. And that may sound hyperbolic, but we were at Yadvashm back in the in the fall in in Jerusalem and seeing seeing the the historical record of what was happening in Europe in the 20s and 30s. And man, there's a lot of overlaps to what's happening today. And it's we're not as far removed from it as we may think. And so I pray for their preservation. And yeah, I pray for their salvation. We pray Chris, you've said this before. >> Love to pray Ephesians 1:17

>> for the Jewish people that the that they would receive the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him and the knowledge of Yeshua. >> Uh that the eyes of their understanding would be enlightened. And uh so that's those are two things I take into prayer often for Israel as well. So Anyways, like Chris said, we've gone a little bit long, but hey, it's fun to talk about this. Uh, thank you for joining with us. Uh, if you're tracking with us, you'll see we're going to go a little slower through the summer. Take it a take it a little slower. But, uh, we'll be back with more episodes in [music] the next couple weeks. So, thanks for joining with us on the prayer stream. We'll see

you next time. Bye for now. [music] >> Thanks for listening to Prayer, a podcast from the National House of Prayer. Click the like button, share, and subscribe to stay uptodate [music] on all our future episodes. For more information on upcoming events, prayer resources, or the canopy of prayer, please visit us at [music] www.enhop.ca. See you next time.